I modified both my tensioners for manual adjustment but what I'm wondering is how much preload to put on the timing chain tensioner. Why did the automatic tensioner for the timing chain have such a stout spring and the cam chain tensioner such a wimpy one? Any thoughts on this?

Lauri Nurminen quoted: "I use the original tensioner, just change the 6 mm bolt to a longer one (by approx. 15 mm). Every 2000 km or so I loosen the bolt, let the adjuster do its thing and then lock it with the longer bolt. Use nut to lock securely. The tensioner can not fail when locked in place. Costs only what longer bolt is."

Luckily I kept my original CCT too I've yet to do as Lauri recommends myself but I believe this is the best course of action

There is a discussion on the Z1300.co.uk Facebook page at the moment & the general consensus seems to be that when you cut a spring it actually makes it exert more force www.eatondetroitspring.com/cutting-coil-springs-calculations/
A fella did some tests & found that the ZZR1100 (ZX-11) CCT with 10mm cut off the spring exerts nearly twice as much force as the spring in the original (K)Z1300 tensioner. I'm going to revert back to the original tensioner & put a longer lock bolt in.

So there's a story here. One tensioner @ 1500 kms showing the same wear as one at 8100 kms. Sounds like the first one had a tight tensioner. Wonder if it was a ZN11 tensioner and if the spring was cut the required 10mm.
This is what happens when we don't follow a standard. this is the engineering in me coming out. We need to document.
Where we started
What we decided
What we did
Monitor for change
Make recccomendations
Followup
Monitor until satisfied
Repeat as many times till we get it right.
Then document the final change that was acceptable.

Wait until I get my bird flying. The changes I'm making including grinding my own camshafts. It will be like flying a new jet for the first time. Which is not your average "ride in the park"

Absolutely. This excerpt straight ou tof the Service manual

Disassembly-Engine Installed
Table of Contents
FLOW CHART
FUEL TANK ............................................... .
SOLENOID FUEL VALVE .... . ...... . ................ .. .... . .. .
FUEL LEVEL SENDER ................... .. ...... . . . ... .. .... .
AIR CLEANER ELEMENT ... . .... . .. . ..... . ............. .. . ... .
AI R CLEANER HOUSING . . ..... . ........ . ........ . ..... . .. .. . .
VACUUM SWITCH VALVE (US model) .............. .. .......... . . .
IGNITION COILS, RESiSTOR ........................................ .
CARBURETORS .... . .............. .. ...... . . . ... . . .. . .... ..... .... .
CARBURETOR HOLDERS . ................. ... . . ......... .. ... .
RADIATOR ...................... . ........................ .
RADIATOR FAN ............ . ..................... . ... ..... .
MUFFLERS .... ..... ....... . ... ....... ... . ... . ............ .
EXHAUST PIPES ..... . . . .............. .. ..... . ......... . .... .
TOP END
PICK-UP COl L ASSEMBLY .... . . ... .. .. ... .. .. . . . ....... . ...... .
AUTOMATIC TIMING ADVANCER HOUSING,
AUTOMATIC TIMING ADVANCER . ...................... . ..... .
CAMSHAFT CHAIN TENSIONER . .................... ...... .. ... .
TIMING CHAIN TENSIONER .... . .. . .. . ............. . ....... . .. .
THERMOSTATIC FAN SWITCH ... . . . ................... .. . . .... .
WATER TEMPERATURE SENDER ....................... . ..... . . .
WATER PUMP IMPELLER, MECHANICAL SEAL ..................... .
THERMOSTAT ... .. .... . . .. . .. ...................... . . .... . .
AIR SUCTION VALVE ........ . ................. . ......... . ... .
CYLINDER HEAD COVER . .... .. . .. ... .... .. ......... . ..... . .. .
CAMSHAFTS ... .... ......... . .... . . . ...... . . . .. . ........ . . .
CYL1NDER HEAD ... ... .. . ... ..... ................... ... .. . . .
CAMSHAFT CHAIN GUIDES . . .. . ......... . ......... . .... .. .. .. .
CYLINDER BLOCK .... . ............. ... . . .. ... .. . ... . . .. .... .
PISTON, PISTON RINGS ..... .. ........ . ... . . . .. .. .. . .. .. ..... .
CRANKCASE STUDS ................ . ......... .. ... . .. ... .. ..

Thanks you all for the valuable info. Mine obvioulsy not the record, becasue the FAQ page has one worse than me(mine went in 16 clicks, his 19 clicks):

Just recently I installed a ZX11 tensioner on a motor that had a new idler gear on it and the tensioner only extended one click. I
had put one of these on another motor and it went all the way down 19 clicks. When I pulled the valve cover on that motor the
idler gear was down to the metal bearing. If it had worn any more, it would of eventually split the bearing cover and spit out the
needle bearings all inside the motor. No telling what that would do but it's all bad!

I've ordered a full zn1300 gasket set from Z1 parts, are they good usable gaskets?

I aslo ordered the valve seals, but I've no idea how to change it yet, guess I'd need a specail tool?

I have a couple motorcycle shops around me, I'm thinking maybe I can take the cyclinder head to them and let them change it for me and take out those two broken bolts

I can honestly say that is without a doubt, the worst worn tensioning gear I've yet to see. so I'm posting some pictures of tensioner gears in "various stages" of wear so you know what it's suppose to look like.
First pic - A new gear without the bearing installed versus and old reasonably worn gear.


Second pic - A new gear installed and run in with less than 1500 kilometers


Third pic- A new Liska gear (metal) which some of our members have bought and installed Around $100 from Liska. www.liskas.com/kz1300-cam-chain-idler/


Fourth pic- What's considered as a totally gone gear which scored the worst gear ever seen before exploding until now. Yours just scored the new record.


So, you're going to pull the head and replace that gear. While you have the head off, remove those 2 broken valve cover busted bolts. You might get lucky with 2 mm sticking out to be able to get a bite on them with vice grips. It's rare that these would break. Either someone has put in bolts 5mm too long and couldn't get a minor leak to stop and drove the bolts tight into the blind holes in which case you may have to drill and use easy outs to remove. Busted bolts in blind holes are always a bitch. Each one deserves its own consideration before tackling. There are a wealth of "magic tools" available for doing this type of work including but not limited to left hand twist drill bits, easy outs in every type imaginable, EDM which is an arc process which errodes out the broken bolt, cobalt drill bits for hardened material, and the list goes on......
Since you're pulling the head, you may as well get the valves done and for sure, change out the valve seals. All that will put you in a good position to carry on with other things that may crop up. I guess the only good news here is that your engine isn't blown from an exploded tensioning sprocket.

ok, opened up the valve cover today and yes the plastic gear is almost gone! ouch! With the zx11 tensioner on, the chain still feels pretty tight though.

Adding to this bad news is another bad news: the PO had two valve cover screws broken stuck in the cylinder head! and they are at the two most hard to reach position around the thermostat. Each screw has about 2mm sticking out of the cylinder head surface. What's the best method to get them out safely?

I don't have the ZX11 tensioner so I can't comment on that, but perhaps this is also a good time to check the valve clearances. It's only removing the head cover - oh well... 32 bolts, but straight forward. Once the top cover is removed you can see this plastic gear from the top and evaluate. Two birds with one stone.

Hi all,

I've just got my first inline-6 bike, a 84 ZN1300 voyager, it has almost 60k miles on the clock and has been siting for at least a year. PO claim the bike was running, but fuel pump has failed so no start. I belived him because his registration was still valid in 2017. My plan is to transform it into CB1100 style. I have striped off all the fairing and audio systems, removed all the rust in the fuel tank, pulled off the air box, fuel line and injectors. Before I install new fuel pump, regulator, clean injectors etc, I followed the KZ1300 FAQ's instruction and changed the CCT to a ZX11 unit. and this part of FAQ scares me to death:

Judging by the different motors I've put these ZX11 tensioners on I'd say if you put one in and it extends a couple of clicks your
idler gear is like new. If it goes 3 - 5 clicks you have minor wear, 5 - 8 clicks you should be right at what you should consider to
be replacement time, 10 clicks for sure it's time, but you might can put a few more miles on it if you need to, and over 10 you'reasking for trouble.

When I installed mine, I used a screw driver to poke into the CCT hole to probe the depth. The depth is at 16 clicks position. Does it mean that piece of pastic idle gear is almost gone? Do I must change it right now?

Stan. www.kz1300.com/index.php/forum/suspensio...-replacement?start=6

Metalguru used 5W oil for his rear suspension units.

If you do a search "AW82 Coil" on the forum, you'll find many many posts on the subject. Probably even more than on the cam chain tensioner !

I've been playing with the engine looking at it from all the possible angles and squirted more oil everywhere I have access to from the top. More turns and everything is actually very smooth and quiet! Also added some oil into the oil filling whole and let it drip all over the clutch for distribution when it's moving. Looked inside on every piston - all looks great! I think the dripping through all the passages oil reached many places. I don't want to overdue it though.
It's very easy to turn the engine without the spark plugs now with more oil in places it feels like absolutely no resistance except compressing the valve springs and dragging the pistons.

I think all is fine, but I still would like to know the opinion about the markings. Someone mentioned chain stretch, and in the excitement I forgot to take it into the equation.
I will recheck the tensioner, install the starter, close the left cover, and temporarily cover the head with the cylinder cover. I am thinking about needing more space when installing the electrical system etc., so I might have to take it off again.

I hope you guys understand the feeling of a little panic and the almost obsession like need to ask for opinions! I've been waiting for this moment for a long time, and have been working so hard to get to this point. When I look at the old photos, even if I would be stopping it now, I think I can pat myself on the back for the work done. It's not over yet and it will take a bit longer, but it seems to me that the project deserves to be acknowledged as already partially resurrected. It does seem to me that the engine is actually ready to breathe! Now the peripherals, many of which are just on stand by waiting to be mounted. Then the tuning.

Well, the CCSL (cam chain slack limiter) adjustment went right. What I did is grind that cone on the end of it to make it flat, then spent some time carefully polishing to a perfect flat using a 1500 paper placed on a glass. Then with finger found where it's making contact with the roller observing it through the top of the engine and what's the reaction. Then inserted a few times the tensioner with different adjustments until that point and backed it off a bit, and bolted.

Turned the engine a couple times and all is fine. I tried to put oil wherever I could from the top and all became quiet and smooth after a couple of turns.

The timing markings are in the same place, which is a good thing. I noticed though that the mark on the exhaust is exactly on the same level as the head surface. But the intake mark is about 3-4 mm above. I am sure this is how I installed it, and makes me think I am off with this and need to readjust and move the cam to the next point.
I didn't feel any resistance rotating the engine, but mind you, this was the first time it did after many many years.

Am I right? OR wrong actually - because I correctly counted the 17 point and what it seems the leveling of the marks on the cams is not laser perfect.

from kawby

I really don't like that Kawasaki calls it a "tensioner" ............, 2-3mm of up and down slack between the 2 camshafts would be what I consider righteous.

Certainly agree with you KB. "Tensioner" could be confusing to the initiated. But easier to say then; " Device to take up cam-chain slack without applying un-necessary stress on the cam-system". or the "D.T.T.U.C-C.S.W.O.A.U.-N S.O.T.C.-S." Ya.....it's a "tensioner"
As far as chain deflection..... I've always viewed this as a point where there should be no slack, or "deflection". I say this because rotating the crank (by hand) tightens the chain between the cams and I'm hard-pressed (no pun intended) to get any deflection by merely pushing down on the chain between the cams, with just a finger.
A point of view from a different perspective perhaps?

Stan wrote So.. where are we now.. Kawboy, I actually measured how far there is to the chain with a wooden stick, how far there is to see the chain move when poked. I screwed the tensioner that far. Would that be THE 'sweet spot'? Seemed loose. When tightening the tensioner further I can move it inwards quite a way. We are talking millimeters of course. Thus it feels like I am sort of shooting ducks in a dark.

I know it's not easy to pin point the absolute correct answer because all sprockets and chains are warned out to a different degree in all different bikes. What I am used to is measuring how much the chain or belt travels when pulled or depressed, and I was hoping there would be this kind of measurement applicable here as well. Maybe there is, but I haven't found yet such info.

I really don't like that Kawasaki calls it a "tensioner" although the stock tensioner does apply a certain amount of tension to the chain. It has to be able to do this in order to self adjust. My preference is to just take up the slack in the chain.Tensioners are always on the back side of the driveline solely to take up the slack. I prefer the manual tensioner because I can adjust it to take up the slack and not add any tension to the chain. The less tension at the point on the chain where the tensioner is, the less force is applied to the nylon gear and that's a good thing. As I stated in one of the previous posts, 2-3mm of up and down slack between the 2 camshafts would be what I consider rightious.

Thank you all for response. I think I was a bit vague instead of painting the whole picture and went straight to the point.
And the picture was a bit bigger indeed.

Biltonjim, I've researched the subject but didn't find scotch's conversion info (thank you!). I just remember him making a list of 'must things to do', and one of the first was to scrap the supplied automatic tensioner, as it is a failure waiting to happen. The ZX11 tensioner - I found out about it after I've already bought the manual one I have. Why not to use it! It wasn't cheap! So, after my searches and reading done, I still had a question particular to my own circumstance.
Today I see scotch's new mod - great! Yet another new chip added to the learning curve. Am I going to do it - but not right now. I am trying to make the one I have working.

I've tried a few approaches but without previous hands on experience, I just have no idea about that 'sweet spot'. What might seem like an obvious one to one person, might not to another, especially one with no experience. Even Formula 1 drivers practice moves a lot, and some win and some loose.

I didn't follow the resetting and trying the original tensioner because I have no experience with it and couldn't really have a piece of mind reading what I see as a result of this experiment. It's an old piece which has a reputation for failure. I have no idea where mine is and what it delivers, I don't know it's history except that of sitting abandoned for 30 years in some shit environment. It's a crucial and a sensitive little gadget. What result would I get might not be equal to a properly working one. Therefore I left it alone searching for a solid measurable answer.

So.. where are we now.. Kawboy, I actually measured how far there is to the chain with a wooden stick, how far there is to see the chain move when poked. I screwed the tensioner that far. Would that be THE 'sweet spot'? Seemed loose. When tightening the tensioner further I can move it inwards quite a way. We are talking millimeters of course. Thus it feels like I am sort of shooting ducks in a dark.

I know it's not easy to pin point the absolute correct answer because all sprockets and chains are warned out to a different degree in all different bikes. What I am used to is measuring how much the chain or belt travels when pulled or depressed, and I was hoping there would be this kind of measurement applicable here as well. Maybe there is, but I haven't found yet such info.

I will be playing with it more. The pistons stay at the top dead center for a bit longer!

A question still lingering in my head is - is this tensioner to simply limit the straight line of chain from moving away from gears when spinning (preventing the discussed fatal jumping the teeth), or also applying extra tension ? Based from what I read from you guys, it is the first (based on advise of not going beyond the light contact and even backing off a tad).

Is this what you meant scotch?

NEVER tighten the CCT with a wrench on the Bolt-Head !!!! My personal experience has always been to turn the BOLT in by hand !! Using a wrench on this bolt will most likely over-tighten the adjustment !

Sorry guys for what might seem like a broken record, but I am still processing

If it were me, I'd pull that tensioner off and work the threads between the tensioner body and the screw to loosen the thread up so that you can nicely turn the screw in the tensioner with little to no resistance. Lapping compound or never sieze, just loosen it up. Reinstall and tighten the tensioner by "feel". The old 1965 Honda 150 (C95) I had, used a similar tensioner and it was loosey goosey. Really nice to be able to feel the tensioner as you set the chain tension..

I don't remember if this is the exact the same one, but looks like this PSR tensioner

And the end is tapered - not sure if this is a good thing? The oem is flat. Maybe this makes it more difficult to feel by hand. Maybe not good for wear as well. Considering to grind it flat. Any thoughts?

Thank you!

Just a quick response to explain where my asking this question came from: mine is a simple aftermarket tensioner (PSR Manual Cam Chain Tensioner) and I am having a REAL hard time to feel when it meets the resistance. It's quite tight despite pulling the o-ring back and I can feel resistance from start. I can only see when the chain moves just a bit and wondering if that would be 'the point' to keep for further experimenting.
I will practice more with closed eyes and meditation, maybe I will get it by feeling it! lol

Stan, if you are intent on using the manual tensioner, before fitting that, why not fit the original tensioner, release the locking bolt on the side, rotate the engine a couple of times, then have a feel of the chain to determine how tense it is. At least you could then judge how much tension the original tensioner applies. Then you could fit the manual tensioner, and try to achieve the same tension.

Quite a lot of members seem to choose the ZX11 automatic tensioner, with the spring shortened. As for me, I intend modifying the original tensioner, in one of the ways Lari or Scotch has suggested in previous posts, as I would be more confident that the correct designed tension was being applied. The subject has been covered many times.