Got a lot done today... engine cases came back from 'the bakers' and they look great.

Back on the rack in the kitchen starting the rebuild. First the final drive section.
Make sure the end bearing is in place with the shims in the right order.
Then also make sure the hole in the end bearing aligns with the oil cut-out in the case.
Shell bearings in place - lubricate generously with assembly lube (really sticky oil)
Then the crankshaft with the new drive chain can be dropped in (gently)
After that the secondary drive shaft can be dropped in, with the new secondary drive chain attached, as well as the water pump and camshaft chains. Make sure it is synchronised with the crankshaft by lining up the timing makes on both shafts and counting seven chains between them (page 109 of the manual). You can just make out the mark on the left hand side, then you can count seven links to the right and there ,barely visible, is the other mark.

The finally the clutch driven shaft can be dropped in - no need to synchronise that with anything, just make sure it fits properly by turning the crank and seeing that everything runs freely.
Finally don't forget the oil catch
and the chain tensioner lip plus rubber bung

I liberally used (oil dissolving) assembly grease on all the 'teethed' wheels I could see and also applied assembly lube on all the chains and bearings.

Thanks for reply !

This one is an investment purchase for me just to keep as original and standard as safe and possible, so no plans for anything else but Camchain Tensioner mod etc.

Pete F

Ha ha ha !! that's great! What model is that ? I got one for my self to build over Christmas.



And obviously after building it, Kawboy's "garden hose" method and voila ! You brand new bike for Christmas is there!

Oh, and don't forget manual cam chain tensioner

StanG wrote: Kawboy, do you have info about what's the slack of new chains on hand?

Sorry Stan. I don't. I have new chains fabricated by Ramsey Chains in South Carolina. I sent them 2 old chains for identification and they made me up 2 new ones. All Ramsey does is Hi-Vo chains.
On all models of the KZ, Z, and ZN series engines, slack and stretch in the primary and secondary chains will have retarding effect on the valve train timing plus of course slack stretching in the camshaft drive chain.
Because there isn't a tensioner in either primary or secondary drives chains, as the rpm's accelerate and decelerate, the valve timing could change as much as possibly 20 degrees. 20 degrees is the equivalent of one tooth on the camshaft sprocket.
My main concern is that by design (or maybe better said design flaw) as the chain stretches /wears between the drive face of the chain and sprocket teeth, as the chain is put under load, the chain rises up off of the teeth and starts driving the sprockets on the tip of the teeth rather than on the major face of the teeth. I know I've seen a video of this effect but for the life of me, I can't find the source of that video.I wished they had put a slack adjusting system on boththe primary and secondary drive chains to control the slack. I don't like the fact that the valve timing can change as much as 20 degrees between load and no load. We all should know what happens when the camshaft jump a tooth because of a loose cam chain. Bent Valves.
Retarding the intake valves will delay the opening of the valves which starts the intake flow late but worse is that the delay in closing the intake valve will have an adverse effect on compression stroke. The valve closing on these camshafts is 70 degrees after bottom dead center. That only allows 110 degrees of compression. under perfect conditions ie. new chains. Delay that closing by 20 degrees means you now have a compression stroke of 90 degrees.
Delaying the exhaust timing by 20 degrees allows the power stroke an extra 20 degrees of combustion pressure on the piston, but it also allows the flame front more area on the cylinder walls to dissipate heat. It also delays the flow of exhaust gases out of the cylinder which effects cylinder scavenging. The worst is that closing the exhaust valves late means that the exhaust valve will be lower in the combustion chamber and interference with a piston is more than likely.
The camshafts on the KZ and Z have a 280 exhaust duration and 270 intake duration. That's a lot of cam but needs to be on an under square engine (smaller bore than stroke). The ZN Voyagers changed that spec to 260 degrees duration for both the intake and exhaust. That should tell you something.
One phenomena I have found with measuring the camshafts is that for some reason, all 6 sets of camshafts I have in my possession measure out at 290 - 310 degrees of duration. I think a lot of why I'm measuring this is due to the small base circle of the cams. Had they designed the engine to use a bigger base circle, there would be a lot more room on the cam to better control all aspects of the cams. These cams are lazy to get going and lazy to close. Compound this phenomena with late timing and you're asking for trouble.

What does that bolt under the cover, in the middle of the picture, do? Feels like some sort of ratchet

That cover is referred to as a release plug item # 92066 (picture from Partzilla parts manual) and it gives access to the water pump drive shaft. On the kz1300 in order to remove that bolt on the end of the shaft, you have to have the cylinder head off. Why they put a plug access hole on the right side of the cylinder block to gain access I don't know. In order to remove that bolt you have to have a wrench on the water pump shaft to counteract the torque as you remove that bolt.


This is a pic of the kz1300 water pump drive shaft looking from the top. All the same parts except for the gear to drive the timing advancer which in your ZN is on the end of the crankshaft right side.



If you tried to turn that bolt and got a "ratcheting effect" Then you turned the water pump drive shaft and the racheting effect was the drive chain jumping teeth which means the drive chain tensioner is not taking up the slack. Not good.

LareNurminen wrote: The exhaust is Aris prototype 6-1, single wall stainless. It has improved low range torque and incredible sounds. The front fork is stock as well as rest of the bike too. I just dropped the exhaust and radiator in order to gain access to the gear forks via the oil pan. I have had issues with the first gear kicking out occasionally. At the bottom of the pan was the probable cause, the rubber of the cam chain roller. It had ripped off and has been jamming the gears!?
Anyway, removal of the head is awaiting. Something to do during the winter. Ha ha.

Extremely lucky catch Lare. To lose a chunk of rubber off of the cam chain tensioner and not spin the timing chain and bend valves? Good thing you went after the shifting problem !! Kudos to you. and thanks for sharing that information. It just amazes me how many timing chain issues we have with these bikes.

Thanks Stan. I have found the measurements for the cam chain and the one that drives the water pump, oil pump and timing in the manual and these are well within spec.

All tensioner guides are also hardly worn and connecting rods do not move other than very slightly side-to-side which I'm told is OK. Considering the engine had previously been overbored and thus taken apart, perhaps they changed the chains and the big ends etc. as well.

However, I cannot find the measurements for the primary and secondary chain?

I will attempt to take and post a video (is that possible on the site? If not I'll post a link to dropbox) of the insides from underneath and show you how much/little play there is in the gears and what they look like, plus to show what the primary and secondary chains slack is. I want to avoid taking the crankcase apart if I can avoid it..

Cheers
Paul

I had to go back and reread your initial post to try and help you out here.

You mentioned that the engine was sputtering and running rich just before it died. You check things out and found a bad tensioner roller so you replaced it and the timing chain. Did you check to see if there was any bent valves. If you bent some valves you have your answer.

Long story short, engine started sputtering and running terribly rich last spring, found out there was worn out tensioner pulley and it was replaced along with new timing chain.
CDI box was toasted so it was replaced too with used one.
After this the engine does not start. It cranks ok (fuel pump works and primes too) and if i give some throttle it backfires to aircleaner. Tried to turn cams 180 degrees, did not make any difference. T-mark and timing is spot on.
Temperature sensor next to thermostat broke and was replaced with the one from Toyota Hiace.
Need help, we have tried everything.

tackelhappy wrote: If there is only two different oil pan volumes , and all clutch covers are the same size, then how is there 3 oil volumes.

The early engines where known to eat cranks - I blew a main bearing and trashed the crank in my 79. Later models were fitted with larger sumps (5.9l) to help alleviate oil issues and I suspect even after that Kawasaki was on a mission to squeeze in more oil - at some point deciding they could safely add another 0.3 litres (total 6.2 l) without causing other problems. Note that they added some oil circuits that weren't there originally - I'm thinking specifically of the pressurized cam chain tensioner. Who knows what else was modified (maybe trapping more oil in the cam galleries) that would have increased oil requirements a bit.

Just another quick bit that came to my mind. The bike start instantaneously after sitting overnight.
There seemed to be a rattle towards the back of the engine around in the top end area. I guessed it was the cam chain. I had tightened it a bit (around 1/8 of a turn on the manual tensioner), and the rattle at start up went away. Right now, any 'noises' on start up go away as soon as the engine picks up the rpm's and stabilizes, which is within a minute.

Thank Holger.

Yes i think  it is rare bike in Italy,
Aniway  when i park it often they take pictures and ask me informations.Happen only with my old MotoGuzzi-

I wonder how you deal with the cam chain tensioner issue.
ciao

Hi has any one experience with different company selling the rubber guide roller for the cam chain tensioner ?
Rob has bought different ones over the years and found some last longer than others obviously harder rubber
i need to get one so if any one has a comment on who makes the best i would appreciate it
Dion

Hi Fabio, nice looking Z13 you've got there.
Fully agree, its well worth doing the Cam Chain Tensioner upgrade: it was the first job I did when I got my Z13 a few years ago.

Cheers Tim

Welcome Fabio.

There are several fix’s regarding the cam chain tensioner. Being that it’s holiday season here is one that you can do very easily, most likely right away with a nut and bolt you have lying around or a local hardware store will have it.

www.kz1300.com/index.php/forum/welcome-m...-cam-chain-tensioner

I have done this mod on two bikes and so far so good. 

Welcome to the site. Looks like you found a very nice KZ13.
Probably the biggest or main concern would be the cam chain tensioner. Better to change it out before it fails then after it fails and bends the valves and connecting rods. The other issues that crop up are annoying issues but the tensioner will cause some significant damage.

Look through the FAQ tab at the top of the page for advice on the tensioners people have used with success.

Enjoy the site. We're here to help.
KB

i bought the bike and it was a starter, but always on 3 cylinders.
my limited knowledge lead me to join the forum and during my
research here on these bikes and elsewhere, i consistently read, about the weaknesses:

1... coils
2... chain tensioner
3... 4 litre small oil sump
4... water pump

unfortunately i live in an area of the world where these bikes are not known and if they where, no one will ever touch them anyway, because
they're just too old and in my case with this bike, as they say, very complex....complex when you compare it with a cb750 or a gs1000 for instance.  two models which most mechanics here consider too old to work on, regardless of their simplicity. 
i knew i had to do the water pump because the oil in the sump was cream and i'm hoping it's this rather than a head gasket or something.....
re assured by a very old kz1300 guru who is 2000 klms away, i complete this with his aid.
i then decide alone, to do the aw82 coil conversion, (without his aid) making sure first primary and secondary of all second hand coils were
good....ballast resistor was removed. 
by accident and luckily, i find a larger 6 litre oil sump and add that to the equation. the bike started and ran, you guessed it ... on 3 cylinders.
i was told to do the carbies next.
so i found a mechanic quite away from me, who swore blind he could fix the bike....he said to me, at some point whilst starting the bike, that he got zapped from touching the frame and will look into it.
he disassembled the carbies and refitted with a brand new complete kit and diaphragms. he balanced them and he also re kitted the front forks.
i am not sure how far the mechanic went with the carbs, but i am assuming he has done what has to be done....as a bike mechanic should. 
a bit naive yes, but i have no choice than to think otherwise.
new ngk bp5es plugs and wire leads were also added....
i am now told that denso W20EP-U arethe best plugs for this bike.
after 3 weeks the mechanic tells me all good, come and pick up.
$2000 later, the bike comes back to me starting and running beautifully.
im smiling................
i took it around the block (about 1 klm) and she ran on all 6 cylinders.
smooth as a silk and quick with all that power.....
beautiful.... i am celebrating.
four days later i go to start the bike....back on 3 cylinders.
6 , 4 and 2 only, running. i take out the plugs, they are all oily black....
i clean them and re position them. one extra cylinder just, but only just, warms up header 5.  at this point, i'm totally frustrated and pissed of.
i speak with certain people who suggest to buy brand new coils and get rid of the aw82's. the old kz1300 guru says piss off the old coils and buy some dynas. (process of elimination)....an expensive one at that!!!       
i exclaim...!!!

so, i'm now at this point now, where this bike is still in the back of my mind. do i take the bike back and get it looked at again possibly under warranty or perhaps another bill of $2000, or do i spend $400 and get some dynas and eliminate another possibility...???
I 'm a single dad and so fairly busy and preoccupied raising a very young daughter.
not that i 'm doingit tough or anything nor need any pity,
but the bike is not necessarily my main focus....as you can appreciate.
i 'm thankful for all the concern and advice i have got from this forum and i would like to eventually get the bike running on all cylinders .... preferably during this lifetime, but i aint slashing my wrists because of my bad luck.
i figure the correct thing to do is take the bike back to the mechanic, who i know will tell me in three weeks time, that he found another problem with it and bill me again, for another problem he has now discovered.....thank you very much.

its 9pm and winter over here at the moment, my back isn't the best and im nearly over it all, so going inside to watch some tv for a change.....providing the fuse box doesn't blow, that is.
.....................gotta laugh.

Could you please tell me where you purchased your tensioner? This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.

Lots of "things" can rattle. Replacing the chain won't get rid of the rattle. You need to measure the strech in the chain to determine if you need to change out the chain. I have replaced the camchain without disassembly. It requires splitting the chain and feeding it around the secondary shaft, then reassembling the chain with a masterlink. Requires a $35 tool to peen the pin on the masterlink. Not too bad to do.
Rattles are not good and you need to find them if for no other reason than "just knowing". The primary and secondary chains have no take up tensioners. The waterpump drive shaft chain has a tensioner but it's a tiny chain and you probably wouldn't hear it rattling but I'd be checking the tensioner just the same.

The engine of my 1984 ZG 1300 DFI is sounding a little rattly these days the bike has done 54500 mls, about 500mls ago I adjusted the valve shims and did notice the plastic camchain sprocket is looking a little worn but still had teeth, it has the upgraded tensioner, over the winter if I change the spocket do you think it will sort out the rattle or should I consider a camchain replacement ( not really wanting to do a complete strip down to be honest.

Thanks in advance

Gavin