Good day KZ1300 brethren! I hesitated to ask this, and spent time in all 21 pages of the engine forum. I thought I remembered seeing a sticky post of the top “tricky” items you should do aware of if you get the engine out for a rebuild. Well... my 79 KZ A is in process of a tear down and refresh. I did this last in 1988, with lots of help from a buddy that wrenched at the local KZ dealer, Shawnee Kawasaki in KC. After 25 years of sitting, she’s coming back to life. She started and ran... which started the financial downfall of my wallet. I was going to do my best replace a few parts and get her on the road dance, which lead to a full restore/rebuild. She is now in a custom shop in Indy. I don’t have access to the time and tools I once did so I let her out of my control. 

The shop owner and I are talking over the engine, He has lots of 900/1000 experience and has built several 13’s in the past. I am looking into the top things that MUST be considered into anytime the engine comes out. From this perspective a rebuild is a rebuild, but some things may look good or spec out, but should always be very throughly checked or just outright replaced/upgraded regardless.,

The list includes:
1. Tensioner (done - changed to manual)
2. Cam chain gear - consider the Liska 
3. Lower rubber cam guide wheels (look to MCG) 
4. Water pump deep dive (gear, shaft, impeller - again to MCG... $$$$)
5. And so on...

All the rest of the build should fall into the standard review of any engine: Cam chains, bearings, oil pump and drive condition, valves, starts, cylinders, the whole sha-bang. I just want to be sure to tap the collective wisdom and not miss the opportunity to replace or very throughly inspect something that might be otherwise deemed ok. 

Thanks in advance for any responses! Wishing you all good health and prosperity! 

Mike
 

biltonjim wrote: What a superb engine. I like that distinctive whistling sound these produce. Are they as

biltonjim wrote: What a superb engine. I like that distinctive whistling sound these produce. Are they as bulletproof as they appear, or are there weak spots, such as the cam chain tensioner?
How does the condition of the bike compare to when you last owned it?

I believe the engines are almost bulletproof. They were quite smokey back in the day, but that was largely due to them often being thrashed from day 1. The sound yes, very distinctive, local dogs used to go nuts when my brother on his z1r and myself rode past.
Condition when I sold it in 2000, was very good, despite not riding it for around 10 years prior. I had filled the motor to the filler cap level to preserve the needle roller crankshaft bearings with oil, ( never ran it like this). Everything else was coated in a thin rust preventative called waxoyle. Underneath that coating was an excellent bike.

The bike today is fantastic , obviously had a recent restoration done to a very high standard. It has lost all of the chromed parts I did in the 80s, swing arm, brake calipers engine casings, speedo tech lower casings side stand.
Tomorrow it goes in a vac bag until the weather changes and the roads are salt free.

What a superb engine. I like that distinctive whistling sound these produce. Are they as bulletproof as they appear, or are there weak spots, such as the cam chain tensioner?
How does the condition of the bike compare to when you last owned it?

Must agree in principle to a tensioner with a "Spring". This would be particularly important if the owner is not exactly "Hands-on" and less prone to "checking" this detail on a "routine" basis. I happen to be of the nature and discipline(?) to check my tensioner several times a year. Only takes a few minutes and gives piece of mind.

fineline wrote:

strate6 wrote:

Stiggy wrote: Someone did a load test on the OEM tensioner spring and stated that the pressure is about 1000grams. The spring tension of a popular option was measured at 2000 grams. ( if I remember this correctly) If you're intuitive, you can see where this comment is going.

I fitted an alternative spring to my GPZ1100 tensioner , as follows....

Ebay Item number 331459306709 size 85mm long, dia 5.63mm, wire dia 0.63mm material Stainless Steel, R 2.77
It has resulted in a loading as you mention of around 990 grams.

STIGGY,
That is very valuable and useful information on the spring you have found available.
Well done and thank you.

Having owned over ten Z1300's over the last 40 years and serviced many more for other owners, I have fitted the GPZ/ZZR1100 Tensioner to all of them and not one has had any issues or wear problems. All have had 10cm cut off the standard spring, but your find does give the tensioner the "stock" level of strength so should silence the "scheptics" .................but then again probably wont as ever !!

The main danger of using a tensioner with no spring, is that if the Nylon Idler Gear or Rubber Gear FAIL (which they often do) then there will be enough "slack" on the cam chain for it to jump a link on the cams and......................well the rest you can guess !

Spring loaded tensioners are definitely the safest and best.

Regards

Pete F
UK

I didn't think of what could happen if a locked tensioner meets disintegrated rubber. I might have to look at the ZZR tensioner again. Coupled with the lighter spring could be great! It was always the higher spring pressure on the nylon/rubber that worried me.

As you can see my rubber wheel didn't fare so well..

SO AS YOU CAN SEE FROM ABOVE................A LOCKED OR UNSPRUNG TENSIONER FITTED HERE WOULD HAVE ALLOWED THE CAM CHAIN TO BE DANGEROUSLY LOOSE WHEN THIS HAPPENS RESULTING IN MASSIVE ENGINE DAMAGE.......FACT.
FAR LESS........ OR NO LIKELYHOOD OF THIS HAPPENING WITH A SPRING TENSIONER AS IT WOULD AT LEAST TAKE UP MOST OR IF NOT ALL OF THE CHAIN SLACK.

NO ARGUMENT THERE....................JUST 100% FACT.............SPRING TENSIONERS ARE DEFINITELY SAFER.

Pete F
UK

Phil,

The ZZR1100 / ZZR1200 / ZRX1100 / ZRX1200 and the last model of GPZ1100 all have the same design and fitment CC Tensioner.

Pete F
UK

Stiggy wrote: Someone did a load test on the OEM tensioner spring and stated that the pressure is about 1000grams. The spring tension of a popular option was measured at 2000 grams. ( if I remember this correctly) If you're intuitive, you can see where this comment is going.

I fitted an alternative spring to my GPZ1100 tensioner , as follows....

Ebay Item number 331459306709 size 85mm long, dia 5.63mm, wire dia 0.63mm material Stainless Steel, R 2.77
It has resulted in a loading as you mention of around 990 grams.

Are you referring to the ZZR1100 / ZX-11 tensioner, or are the GPZ1100 tensioners the same thing / same part number?

strate6 wrote:

Stiggy wrote: Someone did a load test on the OEM tensioner spring and stated that the pressure is about 1000grams. The spring tension of a popular option was measured at 2000 grams. ( if I remember this correctly) If you're intuitive, you can see where this comment is going.

I fitted an alternative spring to my GPZ1100 tensioner , as follows....

Ebay Item number 331459306709 size 85mm long, dia 5.63mm, wire dia 0.63mm material Stainless Steel, R 2.77
It has resulted in a loading as you mention of around 990 grams.

STIGGY,
That is very valuable and useful information on the spring you have found available.
Well done and thank you.

Having owned over ten Z1300's over the last 40 years and serviced many more for other owners, I have fitted the GPZ/ZZR1100 Tensioner to all of them and not one has had any issues or wear problems. All have had 10cm cut off the standard spring, but your find does give the tensioner the "stock" level of strength so should silence the "scheptics" .................but then again probably wont as ever !!

The main danger of using a tensioner with no spring, is that if the Nylon Idler Gear or Rubber Gear FAIL (which they often do) then there will be enough "slack" on the cam chain for it to jump a link on the cams and......................well the rest you can guess !

Spring loaded tensioners are definitely the safest and best.

Regards

Pete F
UK

I didn't think of what could happen if a locked tensioner meets disintegrated rubber. I might have to look at the ZZR tensioner again. Coupled with the lighter spring could be great! It was always the higher spring pressure on the nylon/rubber that worried me.

As you can see my rubber wheel didn't fare so well..

Thanks Scotch, that's the news I was hoping for. I think I will refit it then. I have the OEM tensioner which was modified so it can be locked in position. I bought and fitted a manual tensioner at one stage, but just didn't trust myself to get the right tension so swapped back to the modified OEM one. I trust Kawasaki's spring rate more than my best guess.
It looks like they have new nylon sprockets for sale at MCG in Germany for 79 euros (if I'm looking at the right part). If I got the thumbs down on mine I might have gone that route.

Stiggy wrote: Someone did a load test on the OEM tensioner spring and stated that the pressure is about 1000grams. The spring tension of a popular option was measured at 2000 grams. ( if I remember this correctly) If you're intuitive, you can see where this comment is going.

I fitted an alternative spring to my GPZ1100 tensioner , as follows....

Ebay Item number 331459306709 size 85mm long, dia 5.63mm, wire dia 0.63mm material Stainless Steel, R 2.77
It has resulted in a loading as you mention of around 990 grams.

STIGGY,
That is very valuable and useful information on the spring you have found available.
Well done and thank you.

Having owned over ten Z1300's over the last 40 years and serviced many more for other owners, I have fitted the GPZ/ZZR1100 Tensioner to all of them and not one has had any issues or wear problems. All have had 10cm cut off the standard spring, but your find does give the tensioner the "stock" level of strength so should silence the "scheptics" .................but then again probably wont as ever !!

The main danger of using a tensioner with no spring, is that if the Nylon Idler Gear or Rubber Gear FAIL (which they often do) then there will be enough "slack" on the cam chain for it to jump a link on the cams and......................well the rest you can guess !

Spring loaded tensioners are definitely the safest and best.

Regards

Pete F
UK

Someone did a load test on the OEM tensioner spring and stated that the pressure is about 1000grams. The spring tension of a popular option was measured at 2000 grams. ( if I remember this correctly) If you're intuitive, you can see where this comment is going.

I fitted an alternative spring to my GPZ1100 tensioner , as follows....

Ebay Item number 331459306709 size 85mm long, dia 5.63mm, wire dia 0.63mm material Stainless Steel, R 2.77
It has resulted in a loading as you mention of around 990 grams.

Your Nylon sprocket is in excellent condition ! Because you have it out, you have two choices. Reinstall it and with some simple care, it'll outlast you. ( Let the next owner worry about it.)
Or: Replace it with the Liska Racing sprocket and never have to worry about it, regardless of who ends up with the bike. Certainly some value in that premise.

If you choose to reinstall the nylon sprocket (seriously) do some research and understand the ramifications of doing so in conjunction with your choice of options for the tensioner, itself.
Someone did a load test on the OEM tensioner spring and stated that the pressure is about 1000grams. The spring tension of a popular option was measured at 2000 grams. ( if I remember this correctly) If you're intuitive, you can see where this comment is going.

Modifying the OEM is easy and safe. My alternative choice would be an aftermarket manual tensioner with NO spring.

I'm waiting on a " Liska Racing" steel sprocket. It'll go in the cupboard along with a complete gasket set and rings; ready for the day I decide to do the top-end.
My original sprocket has some teeth left, even with just under 100,000 K. I attribute it's longevity to common sense in maintaining the OEM tensioner which was converted, way back when(?) AND uses the original spring. The spring could be removed without any concerns. The term "Tensioner" is dubious. All that is needed is an adjustable device that removes the slack, which avoids the chain skipping.

Attempt number 3 on the pics.

Hi Fellow Z1300 lovers. I'm doing a top end rebuild on my smokey 1979 Z1300. Not to mention, replace the frame... but that's another story. Does my cam chain tensioner idler wheel look ok or would you replace it anyway. It kind of looks ok ish to me. But a more experienced opinion would be great thanks.

смещение может произойти, если цепь грм растянута. мне приходилось снимать клапанную крышку и прижимать цепь между шестерен, что бы не произошло смещения. Я считаю, что любые действия с газораспределительным механизмом должны происходить в верхней мертвой точке первого цилиндра. метка "Т"

Translated by Google, Kawboy- displacement can occur if the timing chain is stretched. I had to remove the valve cover and press the chain between the gears to prevent displacement. I believe that any action with the gas distribution mechanism should take place at the top dead center of the first cylinder. mark "T"

Thanks Pete.
I will definitely be counting the clicks, its a brilliant heath check for the chain and associated idlers etc.
Reason for my post was prompted by a post i have read on this forum about someone that couldn't get tensioner back in... the chain slack had shifted causing the chain tensioning slipper to be tight against the cct hole. Similar happened to me with my z1000 back in the 1970s.

Hi

No need to position anything on your engine to do this tensioner swap.

Just carefully remove the original tensioner and fit the GPZ / ZRX Tensioner body with the ratchet pin fully retarded (and gasket) into the hole and tighten the 2 x M6 Bolts, then insert the Spring and Pin inside the body. Next screw the retaining hollow bolt with the 12mm Spanner Head into the end of the tensioner body. Its worth counting the tensioner "clicks" as the spring pushes it against the tensioner arm inside the body, just to see how far it goes, as anymore than 8 or so clicks, it maybe worth thinking about a new cam chain !

Pete F
UK

I have bought a gpz1100 cam chain tensioner that I intend to fit over winter. Is there a preferred crankshaft position that will reduce the risk of the camshafts /valve springs shifting the slack side of the cam chain when the old one is removed ??
I have fitted a reduced rate spring to the gpz tensioner in an attempt to make the chain tension similar to the z13 stock tensioner.

Ahhhhh, It's all in the small details. I had to copy the pics and open them up in Photoshop to enlarge and see that the original has a recess where the "Kawasaki" is embossed and the EBay replica does not. Kudos to you for picking up on that.

So, a little known secret that I learned years ago at a Kawasaki dealership-
I wanted a new cam chain tensioner gear for my beast and wondered if maybe, possibly, the local dealership had one laying around in stock. Who knows, if you don't ask ..... They looked it up and the part number was still valid but no, they did not have one. Then they checked to see if they could order it from the warehouse and no, the warehouse did not have it either. So I thought that was it, out of luck. Then the parts manager said " Let's see if I can order it from Kawasaki Japan." Sure enough it was still available. I ordered 2 thinking if it had to come from Japan, I may as well get one for the bike and a spare for future. 3 weeks later, I have 2 tensioner gears.

Bottom line here- It maybe possible that some part items you need are sitting collecting dust at Kawasaki Japan and if you're willing to wait for it, Yee shall receive. You just need to nudge your local dealership to query for parts from Kawasaki Japan and maybe you get lucky. In this case, it may be possible to order key # 5245 and have the original key with the engraved number on it and that would be sweet now wouldn't it?
My 2 cents which no longer exists in Canada anymore. We'll have to come up with an alternative saying or maybe the government will adopt a 2 cent coin for Canada. Lord knows we can print up a new rendition for a Canadian bill to "celebrate" some other political idiot. Why not make us a 2 cent coin so the phase has some meaning. It would be 1/100th of one of our Toonies, which first came out in 1995 and there are now 18 renditions of it celebrating everything from Elizabeth II to the current Toonie which celebrates the 75th anniversary of the end of World War II.

KB.

Bought in June 2018, finished Nov 2020.

Full works list:

Kawasaki K1300 based café racer
Standard frame, rear cut off, new bracing and rear hoop, powder coated

Refurbished cylinder tub
Rebuild cylinder head, new valves and seals, skimmed
New primary and secondary chains
New water pump drive, impeller and seals, thermostat
Refurbished stock radiator and fan, new cap and hoses, custom grille
Rebuilt carburettors, new jets and diaphragms etc
Aftermarket cam chain tensioner
Refurbished pistons and new rings
New engine gaskets, oil filter, engine paint, grey over silver
Aluminium anodised crankcase breather (fleabay)

Accossato/Marzocchi 52mm USD forks, new seals and oil
New brembo front brake discs
Refurbished Brembo goldline calipers, new pads
Benelli Tre K 1130 bottom yoke
MV Agusta top Yoke
KZ1000 steering pin, new headstock bearings
Benelli 17 inch front wheel
Avon Roadmaster tyre 120/80/17
New front and rear wheel bearings
Front and rear mudguards, cut to suit (fleabay)
Custom mudguard stays (ex Ikea wardrobe stabilisers)
Aftermarket new front brake MC
New front brake lines carbonlook
Aluminium anodised black grips (fleabay)
Aluminium anodised black dual line throttle (fleabay)
Aluminium anodised 52mm black clipons (fleabay)
Custom handlebars made from an old water pipe, custom headlight bracket

Kawasaki Zephyr 1100 tank, refurbished and clear coated
New fuel level sender, petcock with custom lever, fuel filter (fleabay)
Part custom made air cleaner box, 4x air pods

Motogadget M-Unit Blue digital fusebox (keyless ignition, alarm)
Motogadget M-Button front control unit
Axel Joost handlebar controls L+R
New wiring front to rear
Ultrabatt Multimighty 400 Lithium-Ion battery
Shindengen Voltage Regulator/rectifier
Refurbished AW82 TR coils x3
New spark plugs, leads and caps
Custom made battery/fuse box
Key ignition switch (fleabay)
Aluminium horn (fleabay)
1959 Citroen Traction Cibie headlight
4x Kellermann Alto Black mini indicators/rear/brake lights
LED number plate lights (fleabay)

Acewell digital speedo
Triumph Bonneville Bobber single seat with aluminium seat pan
Aluminium rearsets (fleabay), custom made bracketry
Hagon gas classic rear shocks, custom made brackets

Refurbished rear brake MC and line
Refurbished and powder coated 17 inch rear wheel
Battlax BT023 new rear tyre 160/70/17
Custom made number plate holder
Custom made stainless steel exhaust system by Predator Motorsports
Vintage mirror (fleabay), custom made bracket