That looks superb! Good originality. Have you owned it from new? What attracted you to the 1300?
Regarding the cam chain tensioner, there is a lot of information on this forum describing the deficiency in the design, and the options for overcoming it.

Well done Paul,

A great result.

On the subject of the ZX Tensioner, it is a very touchy and widely debated subject, but please let me make you aware of a few facts (not opinions or maybe's).

I have owned over ten 1300's in the last 40 years and maintained another two for a good friend and numerous others for other owners too.

Until around 12 years ago, every 1300 I bought had the original standard Tensioner fitted (as the ZX Tensioner Mod was not established before that)..........and the rubber guide wheel on at least 3 of them was vey badly worn or had disintegrated.........with the Standard Tensioner fitted. This was also the case with at least one other I worked on that also had the standard tensioner fitted. The bikes all had relatively low mileages.

I have fitted the ZX Tensioner to every 1300 I have bought over the last 12 years including the one I own now and the other two I maintain for my friend, and NONE of them have had any issues or show any signs of wear on any of the idler gears or rubber guide wheels.

So, this FEAR of the ZX Tensioner doing damage or creating premature wear is all speculation and opinion and to date...............not one owner I know or have heard of anywhere has provided any evidence or facts that the ZX Tensioner does any harm at all............but many have "Opinions" and many of these are "armchair" owners who either dont even own a 1300, or very rarely if ever use their own.

If you read many posts on here and many other 1300 Owner sites on this topic, people state their opinions that the "spring is too strong" or "it will wear your engine out" etc, etc, etc,.......................but show absolutely no proof of this on any 1300 fitted with the ZX Tensioner, and literally 100's or 1000's of owners have carried out and continue to carry out this modification, as will continue to do...............until conclusive evidence prooves otherwise.
This is also probably the reason why good people like Oz and Deb at Zed Parts and our friends at Z1300DE continue to supply the ZX Tensioner as a valid modification.

I will conclude by saying in my opinion, the other tensioner modification which involves modifying the standard tensioner with a back-up bolt, is a great idea and should overcome the initial problem of the badly designed tensioner and probably just as good a fix as the ZX Tensioner mod is................but dont be afraid of the ZX Tensioner until it is proven not to be a good solution, which as of today it has not been.

I will of course make all here aware of any issues or damage I am made aware of on any of the numerous 1300's I have fitted the ZX Tensioner or know of to over the last 12 years which have now covered good mileage over that period.

Pete F
UK

Well done, and a big sigh of relief that there was no permanent damage.

My question is, did you replace the silicone/rubber/whatever chain tensioner roller as part of this exercise? I ask because I thought there was some controversy about whether the ZX10 tensioner applied too much force, and would lead to early destruction of the chain tensioner roller.

Richard

Ok, I fitted the new chain (see other thread) and all seems to be well... the chain has good tension and the tensioner only went in less than ten clicks.

I feel much better now!

Thank you for your help, anyone doing this in future, beware you measure the right way! I didn't when the engine was apart and a new chain was easy to install, and had to do it later with engine together - doable, but much more hassle!

Paul

Right, the cam chain has been changed. I know I said I'd be posting pics, but in the end I had a friend help me and it was a little ... frantic... so we did not get to it.

Ground off two pins of one link off the new chain and caught the three links that dropped out. Then did same on the old chain (using proliferous stuffing down the central hole, fearful for stuff falling in). Then wired up the new to the old chain and pulled the new one through.... easy!

Then used four hands to keep the three loose links into the four fixed ones at either end of the new chain and slotted the new link in. Then the end link pressed on with pliers (no tools!).

Once the pins were flush with the end link, used a small nut to press the pins through the end plate.

First one... pressed too hard and the thing was binding... now way to loosen, so in the end decided to grind that off again and use the second link I decided to get - just incase I screwed up (and I did, so glad I did!). Second one went on same as first but we pressed a little more cautious this time. Then when they were through and not binding we gave each pin a hard tap on the top of the pins and presto, done!

Put the cam shafts back and the tensioner and attache movie shows you the result. Tensioner went in about five clicks at first and then another three or four when I turned the engine. Attached pic is after a full turn of the engine... good alignment.





Gave the cover a new coat of paint and tomorrow it will go back together again.

Paul

I'm getting my old KZ13 running after sitting since 1996. Been in dry storage and looks to have survived well
Do I need to put a ZX11 Can Chain Tensioner in? Bike only has 8800 miles on it. What else should I look for? It MAY be FS...Thanks!

Thank you, that also explains why despite it running quite well, I did get the feeling the timing was slightly off... and idle was a little... erratic, which I though was down to mixture. Anyway....

Kawboy wrote: So how important is it that we measure the service limit correctly??

Well... very! But what is the correct measurement?

I go back to the difference between the picture you posted on how to measure the chain and the one I found in my manual.

Yours does not have the whole chain in the pic, just the left and the right and in between a gap that states 20 links. The one I found in the manual has got a gap with 21 links to be measured. If I measure by 20 links, the chain is fine, by 21 links it is out.

....

Considering I have the evidence that the chain route is correct (pic in my other thread, after you pointing out the pic in the manual) and that the tensioner is fitted correctly, but operating at its limit - which is to be expected with a worn chain... and that the primary and secondary chains were both worn, all the (circumstantial!) evidence points to a worn chain.

.... it better be, as if I fit a new one and it is still not right... grrr !

I really hope so.

New chain with soft link has been ordered with Oz.

I'll do a separate post on how I stick that one on without splitting the engine, for any future unlucky ones like me - they can hopefully then avoid the pitfalls I will no doubt fall into!

Paul

Ha! Found it. Page 27 of my other thread has a pic of me holding the tensioner the way it went in - correctly!

www.kz1300.com/index.php/forum/bike-proj...t-end-goal?start=156

I know far too little so don’t worry, you can’t ever insult me Kawboy!

Like I said you put me straight a few months ago on my other thread and I’m pretty sure I did it right that time as it was wrong before and the discussion we had made me check twice, plus consult the manual and compare what I did pretty carefully.

My worry is more the picture you posted on how to measure the chain vs the one I found in my manual. They are a link apart! That is 6mm and acc to Pete between 11 and 17 clicks on the tensioner we both have there is 6mm difference...

I can’t think of anything else that could be it really... my money is on a stretched chain, particularly as my primary and secondary chains were shot and I must have measured the cam chain wrongly... and left it in the engine instead of going with my gut and replacing it as well.

But just in case ... how could I check visually if it is routed correctly without taking the head off, or the sump for that matter as getting the exhaust on was a struggle!

Paul

Just throwing this out there and no meaning to insult anyone's intelligence, but I recall someone (Stan G maybe) rebuilt an engine and unknowingly routed the cam chain wrong when he installed the tensioner. The rear side of the chain coming off of the secondary shaft runs in the fork of the tensioner making the nylon gear run on the inside of the chain. The Black (or sometimes grey) flat surfaced tensioning wheel runs on the back side of the chain pushing the chain inboard. As I remember it, ( if it was Stan) didn't run the chain in the fork of the tensioner so in effect, the chain was not working against the nylon sprocket and the end result was the tensioner couldn't push the chain in far enough to tension the chain.

Page 71 in the manual - They didn't put it there for nothing. Must be a common mistake !@#@!$#

Paul,

My tensioner removed for my bike at 7.30pm tonight.........the tensioner is obviously not the problem then !!

Paul,

I am pretty sure the fault is not the Nylon Gear.

Take your ZX tensioner out and take a photo of it fully extended next to a tape measure for reference.
I will do the same over the next hour and post it too (after me dinner)

Then we can kill or cure the tensioner being the culprit ??

Pete F
UK

Hi Scotch,

Thanks but it ran this morning when I set the mixture. I'm sure it doesn't now as I have disconnected the Reg/Rec and the coils etc. and the M-Unit prevents starting because it is sensing something wrong with the electrics.

I will take the RH engine cover off and try turning by hand, but I need to put the tensioner in first and drain the oil. The nylon sprocket can be seen from above and looks fine.

Paul

Just did another measurement:

I pushed in the tensioning lever inside the engine with a socket extension until the chain was taut. Then I stuck in my vernier and measured how far it went in. 5.9cm. (I also remeasured the chain and I am no pretty convinced that is OK)

The ZX10 tensioner is just about 6cm long when fully extended... so maybe not long enough.

Can anyone tell me what the proper 'length' of the/a tensioner is when inserted and operating properly? Is it 6cm or longer? If longer, then the ZX10 tensioner doesn't go in far enough. If shorter, there is something else at play that allows the chain to slacken.

Paul

Paul,

The chain service limit info Kawboy has posted and your own measurement prove your chain is well within its limits at 12.2cm (122mm) so its a bit of a mystery.

My own Z1300 has covered 40,000 miles and I have the ZX Tensioner fitted. When I fitted it after my top-end rebuild in May 2020, I got around 10 clicks and my chain is also well within service limits...........so if you have managed 17 clicks, then there MUST be something else wrong here as the chain obviously has far too much slack.

What Stocktoy has said is a good point and "could" be the problem, but with the miles you have already done, I would expect you would have had a disaster by now if its not on the crank sprocket properly.

I suggest removing the ZX tensioner, both cams and make yourself very happy the chain is definitely on the crank sprocket below. This can be seen by looking UP from under the engine with the sump removed.

As far as seeing the route of the cam chain through the tensioner guide, I dont think it is easily visible from the top end, but if its not routed correctly, it could result in too much slack and maybe the issue you have.

Its starting to look like your cam chain is ok, so I agree with Kawboy, there must be a mismatch of components somewhere.

Pete F
UK

Sorry, I'm not sure I understand. My measurement starts at link 1, not 0.

If I put the left 'jaw' of my vernier on the centre of link 1 and the right hand one on the centre of link 20, which I think is correct and as per the manual, then it reads 12.2cm. If I start at link 0 and then go to link 20.... obviously it is way out as there is another link. I don't think that is right, so I think maybe the chain is OK.

The ZX10 is just different in terms of the spring and the way it 'clicks' - the clicks are the 'no return' mechanism. But it is still pushing the chain, and when it does it makes the chain 'stand up' from the inlet sprocket. So its doing something and has more to give (albeit little)... so it would do the same if it was only in by ten clicks...

Btw, with the old tensioner I have the same result.

... sigh.. I need to have a think and will scrutinise the manual again.

Paul

I'm not buying it. Something is wrong with your ZX 10 tensioner mod. Not sure what but if the cam chain has that much slack then the tensioner is not taking up the slack. The fact that you're at 17 clicks out of 19 indicates a problem. As I remember it, a reasonable worn chain with the ZX 10 tensioner mod usually comes in at 10 to 11 clicks.
Before jumping to the conclusion that the chain is worn beyond the service limit, you need to measure the chain as per the manual page 191, table H57.


If this measurement indicates a chain beyond servicing, then replace the chain. If the measurement indicates the chain is within service limit, then you need to sort out the real issue.

As for running the bike with that much slack in the chain- I agree with Pete. Way too much slack in the chain. I would expect about 4-6 mm of up and down movement would be acceptable between the 2 cams as shown in your video.

Hi Paul,

Hate to tell you mate, but that is FAR, FAR TOO MUCH slack on the chain between the cams. I would not risk running that in fear of it jumping the gears.

As long as you have routed the chain correctly over the gear and rubber wheel on the cam chain tensioner arm (which the tensioner pushes against) then its definitely time for a new chain.

Oz & Deb sell a cam chain with a soft link which you can see on their site.

Pete F
UK

Hi all,

I went on a test ride and I heard (only for a moment) a noise like a chain rattling in the engine somewhere. This was preceded by a ticking noise at the top LH corner of the engine.... which went away when the engine was warm.

Both incidents made me decide to take the cover off (what a pain, even the coils have to be removed to do that!) and have a look.

All looks fine with the camshafts, and with those that I can measure, all the valves still have the right clearance. For some reason the bike doesn't turn over anymore on the starter so I can't check any of the others.

However, when looking at the cam chain, with the (ZX10) tensioner still in place, the chain stands proud of the inlet cam gear and between the two shafts is very slack. See video. In the engine the chain is taut. The tensioner has 19 clicks to its end and when pushing it in by hand I get to 17 clicks, so there is some left, but not much!

Is this too much slack and is the noise I am getting the chain rattling on the cover? If that is so, with the tensioner still in place, is the chain too far gone? I measured it when putting the engine together and it was well within tolerance...

Anyway, if it's gone it will have to be replaced.... can that be done without taking the head off? (cut the chain, link to the new one, pull through and then somehow compete the new chain- I have not seen any 'connecting links' on it like on a bicycle chain...)



Cheers
Paul

The M6 nut is probably down in the crankcases somewhere now as it sits directly above the camchain. Its worthwhile having a good search around the shim buckets and camshaft areas with a magnet just to see if its sitting waiting to jump into the engine when you build it all up ?
You really do need to find it and when you fit it or the replacement, get the threads really clean and plenty of thread lock on them. Check the other one too !

As for the Emission Valves, just make flat alloy plates and sink them in with silicon, then fit the covers with new gaskets, or a bead of silicon around the edge.
You need block the hole on each cover.

I fitted a Liska Metal Idler Gear to my own 1300 about 2 months (2000 miles ago) and could not hear any different noise from the top end once running, but I do now think I can hear something form that area..............not a bad noise..........just different, but am happy to live with that rather than run the Nylon Gear.

There are very mixed opinoins and info on the length of the ZX11 Tensioner Spring recently and wether to cut it or not and they all make sense, but the latest is that if you cut it, it makes the spring stronger, so maybe best to just leave it as is ?
The ZX11 Tensioner has 19 to 21 TOTAL Clicks in its length, so 11 would appear to be half way. Mine was 10 to 11 clicks and has 40,000 miles recorded and the cam chain is within service limit too.

Pete F
UK