I asked how long....? to get a sense of your experience with the 1300 and /or other bikes.

You wrote: I'm trying to avoid paying someone to pull the carbs off just to check the fuel level in the bowls.

Why are you unable to do this yourself ?


You wrote: Can't do a "wet" check from the outside -- my carbs have no overflow tubes.

This suggests some confusion on how the 'wet-level" is checked.


You wrote: So I might drop the bowls with the carbs still on the bike, and feel with my to see if the floats feel "free."

2 problems with this idea:

1) The awkwardness of trying to remove the bowls "on the bike". I consider myself "very proficient" at working on 1300 carbs on and off the bike. Having tried to re & re a set of floats this way (on the bike) I can tell you it is simply frustrating and excessively time consuming vs removing the carbs' as an assembly and doing the float check on the bench - the accurate, efficient and relatively stress-free way.

2) Trust me: you'll not determine "diddly" about the floats being "free" while still on the bike. There are too many things that can not be seen or determined unless the carbs are on the bench. The time it takes to adjust a set of floats while on the bike is EXCESSIVE and FRUSTRATING compared to doing this on the bench. Removing the carbs is so easy and simple. It's nothing more then familiarity and technique. I can remove my carbs and have them on my bench in 8 minutes! No Magic! 1 Tank-bolt, 1 fuel-line clamp, tank vent tube, pop-off sending unit leak-cap, (the fuel-sender plug comes apart upon tank removal.), remove tank and place on packing-mat on floor, air-box side covers off, two 10mm bolts for upper air-box-to-carb, 3 Philips-screw carb-clamps, 1 10mm throttle cable nut ( I run one throttle cable, not the typical 2), remove carbs to bench ! That was closer to 7 minutes !

Note: The problem I originally had and most struggle with is removing the top air-box piece. The main wiring harness that runs down the right-hand side immediately behind that air-box piece must be "behind" the frame so it can not contact and obstruct the rearward movement required to get it off the carb throats. The other harness running down the spine and the radiator over-flow tubing must also be out of the way. the air-box will then slide back and out easily. In my case to the left seems to work best. ALSO: When removing the carb-assembly the throttle linkage must be fully 'OPEN" so not to catch on wiring/plumbing/cables. By sheer coincidence, the thumb-nut I install on the fast idle screw is an excellent place to push down on the throttle linkage to keep it "open" while sliding the assembly out. This is far easier then having a part of that linkage trying to punch a hole in the end of your thumb! Again in my case, to the left to remove. This is where the fuel-line routing I use also excels. Slide it off the fuel-valve and everything else stays with the carbs.

There is no reason you should be paying someone to re & re your carbs to check your float level. This is basic owner maintenance you should be comfortable doing yourself and will save you huge $$$$'s.
AND, the more you do this type of basic work yourself, the more familiar you'll become with this part of the bike, thus: the more confident you'll become in taking on this task and others.

Hope the photos help give you some ideas and encouragement.

RE: The picture of the bench-carb noted with the self closing door hinge: The hinge holds the bowl in place which eliminates the need to use one of the bowl screws. This speeds-up the adjustment process substantially.

I think you're right -- it's always "felt" like flooding to me. Since this is a relatively new development not long after a professional tuneup, I'm hoping it's just a stuck float that's causing the problem. I'm trying to avoid paying someone to pull the carbs off just to check the fuel level in the bowls. Can't do a "wet" check from the outside -- my carbs have no overflow tubes. So I might drop the bowls with the carbs still on the bike, and feel with my to see if the floats feel "free."

I have done a lot of work on Fuel Pumps with carb model Z1300s over many years.I have fitted most of my own with a pump and fitted many more to other owners bikes too.

The PULSE pump is a waste of time & will not improve the flow at all.

You need a very low pressure pump from a bike fitted with carbs such as a Yamaha VMAX or early carb model R6.
These pumps are made to supply the correct amount of fuel at all times by keeping your float bowls full but not stressing them and creating an overflow.

The thing you MUST be sure of is that your float jets & seats are in good order to maintain the flow pressure from the pump, or they will allow too much fuel past.

Once done correctly a pump will make starting far better & general running much better too.

Pete F
UK

Hello Michel:

You might have an easier time of this by using a slide hammer.

These pivot points rarely get the needed maintenance, and the old grease turns to paste, thereby locking these swingarm pivot pins in place.

1: Prior to removal, dab some penetrating oil on the pivots and frame. Give that a few hours to wick into the joint.

2: Remove the outer bearing support. (the bracket with the three bolts.)

3: Insert the 5MM bolt and use the slide-hammer to gently tap (with an outward motion) to coax the pivot pin out of the pin bore. This is only a 5MM bolt so don't use too much force.

4: If the Slide-Hammer does not work, continue to soak it with penetrating oil.

5: if the penetrating oil does not do the trick, use MAP gas (torch) to heat up the frame. Concentrate the heat on the frame, and not on the pin. If you have to use heat, remove the coolant recovery overflow tank and make sure there is nothing that will melt or burn behind the frame. (this would be the most aggressive method) Make sure you use the MAP gas in a well ventilated area with the fuel tank removed.

6: For lubricant, use a Moly paste to coat the tapered bearings and pin. Also use anti-seize on the outer bolts.

This is a task that should be done every two to three years. Unfortunately, most of our 1300's rarely have this done.


Keep us posted.

But more importantly, you need to find the real reason why the carb overflowed in the first place, or it will just keep happening & this will have a gross effect on your starting & general running.

Its either the rubber o ring on the float valve is letting fuel past
Or
The float valve & its seat is worn & letting fuel past
Or
Both the above.
Or
Your float height is too high so not stopping fuel at any level.
Or
You float is sticking & letting fuel past.

As your carb has been overflowing, you also need to check the oil in your engine as if the fuel has been overflowing into the engine as well as the airbox (which it often does), you could have a lot of fuel in your oil which is obviously not good & once again will have a bad effect on starting.

Pete F
UK

KEL wrote: Thanks for replying Todd. Its appreciated!
I don't have the Solenoid fitted.
My original thought was to maintain the fuel line "above" the height of the T fitting rather than run it down below the carbs and up to the T. However I can see that this may in fact be forcing fuel down the T and causing the floats to struggle with the pressure and then overflowing.
If you are saying that it will draw fuel OK with the fuel line "below" the T, I shall try that and see.
Oh, and yes I was doing all my work on the side stand at the time. (I had a bad experience with the center stand as it fell over as I was trying to lift it up on the stand!!!!)
To me the whole thing is poorly designed.

Say KEL

In the past, owners have routed the hose either way. I personally like the over, below, and back up pathway because you can have a longer supply line when lifting up the tank to remove it. (This way also keeps it out of the way of the balance adjusters too.) It really comes down to how much line you have and personal preference. It draws fuel fine in either direction and it should not affect the pressure on your float valves.

As for the center stand, Kawasaki could have and should have spent a little more time thinking about the leverage needed to lift this beast up on the center stand. I am sure it has caused a few trips to the hernia doctor.

For most bikes there really is a proper technique to lifting a bike on the center stand. Some people try to use their upper torso when lifting, when in fact they only end up frustrated and fighting the whole process.

One should get very close to the bike and lift it up by pushing with their leg down on the stand. (Then pull back with your arm.) Kawasaki also did not give much of a pushing pad to stand on the pad. It really needs to be done with riding boots on. If you use tennis shoes, it can dig into your foot and smart a bit.

My newer BMW is fairly heavy but it is amazing to me how little leverage is needed to foist if up on its center stand.

Thanks for replying Todd. Its appreciated!
I don't have the Solenoid fitted.
My original thought was to maintain the fuel line "above" the height of the T fitting rather than run it down below the carbs and up to the T. However I can see that this may in fact be forcing fuel down the T and causing the floats to struggle with the pressure and then overflowing.
If you are saying that it will draw fuel OK with the fuel line "below" the T, I shall try that and see.
Oh, and yes I was doing all my work on the side stand at the time. (I had a bad experience with the center stand as it fell over as I was trying to lift it up on the stand!!!!)
To me the whole thing is poorly designed.

Hello KEL:

That could be oil and it may be fuel, it was hard to tell by looking at the photo. Try snapping a photo in better light. Or closer to the center electrode.

As for fuel hose routing, do you have your OEM fuel tap and fuel shutoff valve on the airbox?

On my bike I have the factory tap and shutoff valve and route my hose accordingly.

1: Out of the tap, it runs left to right, then down in behind the cylinder head. I then turn it straight down, between the LH and Center carbs. Then back to fuel shut off valve on the airbox.

2: On top of the fuel shutoff valve, the fuel hose routes a short straight distance up to the fuel "Tee" fitting in between the left and center carburetors.


If you don't have the factory fuel shut off valve, I have used that same path with the carburetor fuel fitting "Tee" still turned down with the hose running up to the Tee, under the carbs.

In the past, I have used both combinations on the various 1300's I have worked on with no problems.

I have never encountered vapor lock with either combination. Have run those configurations in hot and cold climates.

Regarding the fuel overflowing, It would be best to troubleshoot why your float valve is leaking and cure that problem. Another 1300 item is to keep the bike off of the side stand and on the center stand. Plus at the end of the day's riding, get in the habbit of running the bowls dry with the engine running. (Shut the tap off about a block or two away from your final destination.) This way overnight your bowls will have nothing to leak or leach into the crankcase.

On every stop, about 99% of the time, I always shut off my fuel tap just to make sure. Encountering liquid lock on this bike can get quite expensive, with alot of downtime to repair.

Hope this helps.

Todd.

Had a mixed day trying to get this sorted today.
Tried all the ideas and gave up.
I am now looking to get a small elbow fitting to try and get the angle correct at the carb end.
I figure the early post is the go, straight out of the tank, along the gap, hard u turn back to carbs into a right hand fitting to the inlet.
Also found the delightful trait of carb overflowing when tap is on and bike is on the side stand.
What a totally terrible design all round eh!!!

Toddh wrote: KEL:

You could be correct in thinking it may be residual oil and years of idleness happening in those cylinders.

Purely white smoke indicates water leaking into the cylinders, either a gasket or a crack somewhere.

Blue smoke indicates oil

Dark to black would indicate excess fuel.

Provided it's not overheating, or making any abnormal noises, I could continue to run it for a while to see if it clears up.

If you can run it for a while, take the plugs out and have a look. If there is water in the cylinder, the plug will be steam cleaned, with little to no carbon deposits on the plug electrode.

Then do a compression check. while doing the check, hold the throttle wide open with the ignition disabled.

If it's oil, you'll see coking (Baked on oil) on the porcelain.

If it fuel, you'll see excess carbon.

Let us know.

T.

Geezus thatnks for the info T.
I pulled #1 plug and it looked like this, suggesting it was all the oil i had dumped in (i hope) so i will press on.

I really don't like how the fuel line is set up. The petcock faces away from the carbs and the feed line. Is it cool to run it under the carbs? Will the fuel rise upwards or should i try and have it parallel.
And finally, I also had the left hand carb overflow a fair bit when it was on the side-stand that doesn't make sense either. Ideas mate?

KEL,

The Fuel Solenoid was fitted to the 1300/6 to prevent the carbs flooding if the fuel tap O Ring fails or allows fuel past when its in the OFF position (which they often do). All the solenoid does is OPEN & allow fuel past with the ignition ON, & CLOSES to stop fuel passing when the ignition is off. In principle it is a good idea, but the solenoid itself was badly made & often did not open when it should & became very intermittent causing starting & running issues. Thats why most have been removed.

The carbs on our 1300/6 bikes are very badly designed & dont have any form of overflow, as most other carbs do. This means if the fuel is not stopped when the bike is not running, it will fill the carbs........then the airbox, then the cylinders, then your crankcases & fill the engine itself.

Believe it or not, this is a common occurrence for those not aware of the problem so you MUST make certain your petrol tap is definitely NOT letting any fuel past when in the OFF position & obviously ALWAYS turn your tap off when not using the bike. This is why many (including me) fit a GPZ900R tap which is vacuum controlled & prevents letting fuel past unless the engine is running.

Over the past 30 years, I have tried EVERY different route of fuel pipe possible from the tap to the carb, and along-with many USA Owners have found the best one is as described earlier in this post, over the top of the carbs. I have had some success with routing it UNDER the carbs & back up to the T Piece, but found supply problems at longer stretches of high revs, which was not the case with the routing over the top of the carbs.

Its also important to use at least 7mm ID fuel pipe. If you use 6mm ID it can be too restrictive.

Hope that helps ?

Pete F
UK

Pete:

Have you checked the overflow vent tube? (Internal to the tank) The one that vents overboard near the tool tray. Then there is a rubber hose that extends beyond the frame and exhaust, (muffler cans.)

Take some compressed air with a rubber tipped nozzle from the outside to back flush it.

I don't think the upper portion is accessible from the top inside of the tank.

(This won't cure the vent issue but will assist with fuel going overboard properly, instead of coming out of the top of the tank.


In the early 80's I had the same problem with a 1979 MKII tank. Under hard acceleration and hard braking, fuel would rush out of the cap area and wash-over the hot engine. (Which was exciting) Kawasaki went as far as warranting the tank, but in the end, it ended up being the vent system in the cap. The Dealership drilled the two holes on the side of the cap to a larger diameter and that cured the problem.

Have you pulled the cap completely apart? They have a tendency to rust and corrode with all of the condensation in the tank.

When the cap goes back together make sure it goes back together properly. Last year, I installed a seal wrong on my Z1R fuel cap. This caused the tank to not vent (Opposite of your problem but just relaying the School of Hard Knocks.)

I have seen new seals and service parts available via ebay.

Hope this helps.

T.

Hi I'm new here and I have a problem.
I bought this A1 bike as a non runner, it had jumped the timing and bent all the valves. The bike was last run back in the 90's.
I replaced all the valves, timing chain and tensioner and I've had it running rough. I stripped and cleaned the carbs and it was running better but still rough. I suspected that it was drawing air in between the carbs and head, with my hand held above the rubbers I could feel it blowing.
I had the engine running to bleed the cooling system as per the manual but at the time I didn't have the expansion tank fitted so I used a 2 litre bottle sitting on top of the battery. The hot coolant overflowed and ran down over the IC igniter.
When cool I tried to start the bike but nothing, if I left the bike for a few hours and tried it, it would fire the first turn and then nothing. I thought the hot coolant may have entered the IC igniter, I removed it and placed it in a warm dry area. I plugged it back in a few days later and the bike did start but it sounded like it was running on 2 cylinders. I checked the spark and I had a orange spark instead of white/ blue spark. I got a second hand IC igniter and tried it, and nothing it wont offer at all. I checked the ignition timing and that was out and set it by the book, I have even checked it with a Snap on strobe and the timing is on the mark cranking it over. I got white spark to the plugs and I have about 130 psi compression and I got fuel, the plugs are wet. I have removed the carbs and resealed the rubber manifolds to the head after it cooled down when bleeding the cooling system. My theory is there are 3 ignition pickups and three coils, I can't see 3 coils going down altogether or all 3 pickups. What's frustrating is I am a professional mechanic.

Got my used GPZ900R petcock in the post today (Ebay strikes again!).

It is a very well designed part & looks to be an ideal upgrade for our beloved 1300.

The problem I have had in the past with finding a good updated suitable replacement for the original was the pitch between the 2 mounting holes on the base of the tank & the fact that the fuel pipe feed needs to come out of the bottom & backwards.
All of these requirements make using a petcock from most other bikes impossible, as they dont have the correct pitch or the fuel pipe outlet is in the wrong direction & space all around the position of the petcock itself does not allow that.

Thanks to the owners who made me aware of this upgrade.......priceless info & what an owners site is all about !!

Why update the petcock from the original anyway ???......a good question.

The original petcock only works with gravity meaning if you leave it in the ON or RES position it is constantly feeding the carbs. Also due to its basic design, it relies on just one little o ring to stop the flow of fuel even in the OFF position, and unfortunatley this very often fails. So yo thinks its OFF.....and its not.

The float jets on the 1300 carbs are not the best either & often allow fuel to pass when they should not (bowls full). This is not so much of a problem when running, but when not running you risk the carbs flooding. On most bikes this would just mean the fuel would flow out of the overflows & onto the ground below the bike........but NOT on a 1300 as it does NOT have carb overflows. This means the fuel goes straight thru the carbs & into the combustion chambers. It then runs past your piston rings & over time (overnight) completely fills your engine & gearbox with fuel.
This cannot happen on FUEL INJ models as they dont have carbs & the fuel pump acts as a stopper as well.

YOU CAN IMAGINE THE PROBLEMS THIS WILL CAUSE & THE COST OF MORE FRESH OIL & HAVING TO DISPOSE OF THE FUEL & OIL INSIDE YOUR ENGINE (but it does give it a real good clean inside!).

THE ANSWER !

Find & fit a petcock that is a VACUUM Type which can ONLY let fuel out when the engine is running. That way even if you leave the tap in the ON position you are much safer.....and when you get to my age, I am forgetting things more & more !!

I dont want or mean to cause unecessary worry here, but this is a long standing & common problem with the 1300.

Pete F

Someone on the old KZ1300 Owners site said you should take this SOLENOID & The CAMCHAIN TENSIONER to a lake ...........& throw them both in !!!!.......as they are pretty useless & problematic.


The SOLENOID unit fitted to CARB 1300 models at the front of the airbox is not any form of pump. It just stops fuel flow when the ignition is turned OFF & allows it to flow with ignition ON.

It does not pulse or create any pressure what so ever. The only reason it was fitted was due to the fact MIKUNI who designed & made the TERRIBLE carbs did not include fuel overflow pipes on each carb body.
This basically means if you leave your petcock ON the fuel will stop at the SOLENOID rather than flowing straight thru them, filling the carbs, running down the inlets, past your piston rings & filling your entire engine with petrol........which is very common for owners who remove the SOLENOID & leave their fuel ON by mistake.

The problem is they are a very poor SOLENOID & often block or dont work, creating all kinds of starting & running problems, so most owners remove them.

You can often see OVERFLOW pipes fitted to most other carb bikes with a little piece of clear plastic pipe on the end for the fuel to overflow out of if the carb gets too full.

The moral of the story is.......MAKE SURE YOU TURN YOUR FUEL OFF WHEN YOU LEAVE YOUR 1300 IF YOU HAVE REMOVED THE SOLENOID !!

If you look at the links to the old site on this site, it shows the best way to route the fuel pipe (over top of carbs) for a GRAVITY fed supply. For what its worth I have tried all ways & this way is definitely best.

Pete F